[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the Arkansas Baptist Women podcast. This year we are focusing on what it means to be an Arkansas Baptist woman. A woman who loves the Lord, lives on mission for the gospel, is present in her calling, is trained and equipped to lead, and is sold out to Jesus. I'm excited to talk about life, ministry and our relationship with Jesus. So grab a cup of coffee and join the conversation.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Hey, sweet friends, it's Andrea. I hope that your day is off to a great start. I am so excited to come to you today with what I think is going to be one of our favorite episodes. I think you're going to want to listen to this. I think you're going to want to share it with your friends. We are joined by the one and only dynamic duo, Cory and Stephanie Epps. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Glad there's only one. You know, I don't know what we would do if there were two of them, so. Yeah.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Hey, listen, you own the rights on Corey and Stephanie Epps, right?
[00:00:56] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. For better or worse. Yeah. So we're grateful to be here with you.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: We love you guys. I don't feel like I have to introduce you, but just in case there's one person out there who might not know Corey and Stephanie, they lead us in worship at conference and they do such an incredible, incredible job. We're going to get to know them. We're going to get to know their families. We're going to get to hear their hearts for worship. I hope that we're going to hear some fun stories as well. But really we're doing this podcast to help you Arkansas Baptist women know how to prepare for conference. We want you to come ready, come hungry, come prayed up, ready to worship the Lord. And so we're going to get to that in just a couple of minutes. But right now, let's just take a couple of minutes. Corey and Stephanie, tell us a little bit about you and your family and then we'll go back and kind of catch up on your childhood as well.
[00:01:49] Speaker C: Great. Yes. Steph, you go ahead. You talk about the family.
[00:01:52] Speaker D: Okay, so Corey and I have been married for almost twelve years. Coming up in January, we have two kiddos. Macy Jane is about to turn five and Coleman, or Coco, as we call him, is about to turn three.
So it is never quiet at our house. We also have two large dogs, so it is lots of dog hair, tumbleweeds floating through the house.
[00:02:17] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:02:19] Speaker D: Toys to trip on. Just come on out. We'll have a good time for you.
[00:02:22] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Yeah.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: All things real life.
[00:02:27] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:02:27] Speaker C: Yes. That's right.
[00:02:28] Speaker D: And Corey's a worship pastor at Central Baptist Church in Jonesboro.
[00:02:31] Speaker C: That's right. And steph, she actually just started a new job a couple months ago. She's now the director at the foundation of the Arts in Jonesboro. So, I mean, she's heading up programs. Programs. Director. Sorry. You know, it's like. It's like a trans.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Foster.
[00:02:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:02:48] Speaker D: We always joke that I'm the chandler of the friend group because no one.
[00:02:50] Speaker C: Ever knows what I do for what she does. Yeah. So.
[00:02:55] Speaker D: Husband included?
[00:02:56] Speaker C: No, I got it. I got a better handle on this one than your last job, for sure, so.
But she's been knocking it out of the park just kind of handling, you know, other, like, directors for musicals, teachers for, you know, ballet classes and dance classes and all kinds of stuff. Stuff.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: And so that's great.
[00:03:15] Speaker C: A lot of plates here lately.
We've been in Jonesboro.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Yeah. How long have you been there?
[00:03:20] Speaker C: Sorry. We. We came in February of 21, so we've been here for, golly, like three and a half. Three and a half years. That's insane.
Yeah. When we moved here, our little boy wasn't even conceived yet. Even conceived yet. So that's crazy.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: That's great. Well, I know you're getting a. Settled there, and they love having you. Let's go back and talk about your childhood. I always love to hear about how people grew up, you know, when you met the Lord, how all of that shaped you. And so let's do that individually. Stephanie, if you want to jump in and share just a little bit about your. Your. Your childhood.
[00:03:56] Speaker D: Absolutely. So, I have a really small family, but we're very close and tight knit. I grew up in Dallas, Fort Worth, so I'm a Texas girly. Don't hold it against me.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: Nobody's perfect.
[00:04:09] Speaker D: But, yeah, I had kind of an idyllic childhood. Had a great, solid nuclear family. I always get nervous saying that word.
[00:04:17] Speaker C: I don't want to say nuclear family.
[00:04:23] Speaker D: Yeah. There was a lot of stability there. My. My parents are believers and love the Lord and have always served in a church and kind of displayed their faith in our home equally as they would in public, which I think was really foundational and formative for me.
Just seeing that, you know, the faith that they professed was also being lived out behind closed doors was really important. And that has become something that Corey and I, as we have become parents, have, really is becoming very important to us that there's authenticity in our faith and a personal element of our faith so that as our kids grow and learn that it can be a faith of their own and not just, you know, a cultural thing or just what we do or the face that we put on.
So I'm really grateful and blessed to be able to say that. That's the type of household I grew up in. So I was saved when I was almost six. I was really young.
And a couple of times throughout my faith journey, Satan has tried to make me question that because I was little. But the Lord has always been really sweet and generous to comfort me and my salvation, and, you know, the Holy Spirit is in me, so that's all I can say. But, yeah, I met, met Corey in college, and we have gotten to do ministry together ever since. So we've actually been leading worship together since about 2008. So that's pretty fun.
[00:05:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
The way that I came up is very, very similar, but just with a completely different cultural backdrop. And so I'm, I'm not from a big city. I'm from Wynn, Arkansas, born and bred, just about. My mom was born in Wynn. My dad is from Parkin. And if any, if anybody listening knows where Parkin is, points to you.
That probably just means that you got a ticket there one time. That's probably what that means. So.
But, yeah, they don't, they don't even have a school there anymore, and so. But, I mean, yeah, both of my parents were cross county people, and both me and my older brother from the time, I mean, before I was a year old, they moved back to Wynn from Little Rock. And so, yeah, very, again, very, very similar to what Steph's upbringing was. I mean, with my parents, it was, what you saw is what you got. You know, they weren't, they weren't any different at church than they were at home. And again, just what a blessing that is to see that authenticity lived out and not being, having to which a lot of people have had to come to grips with, like, oh, I'm wearing masks, depending on who I'm around and that kind of thing. And so we're just very, very fortunate to live in a home where that wasn't the case. And so now, when my, my dad grew up in an assembly of God background, but was never, didn't really come to know the Lord until he was an adult.
After I was born, I was probably three or four years old when my, with both of my parents came across. My mom didn't grow up in a, in a believing household at all. I mean, like, I mean, there's there's substance abuse on both sides of my family and things like that. And so again, man, just the Lord's provision and his mercy and his goodness just is in, is just all throughout our immediate family. The fact that he has been able to protect us from things that vices that could have been coming from both angles. And so grew up in win, I mean, pre k all the way through high school and then I started leading worship. I guess I was, well, I'm getting put in the car before the horse here.
Came to know the Lord and believed in Christ when I was about eight years old and then a short four years later, we're in youth group and the youth intern at the time, a guy by the name of Dan Shackelford, asked me and a friend of mine, his name is Andy Williams and he's actually the worship pastor at Long Hollow in Nashville now. And so it's funny how again, the Lord's provision, he knew what he was doing and so, but he, he asked if we would lead worship for our fellow peers and students and did not know what that meant or what that looked like. So he, he was very gracious and our friends were very gracious with us too. And so just been, they had a.
[00:08:55] Speaker D: Whole three songs that they wrote.
[00:08:56] Speaker C: Yes, yes, the same three songs. It was, it was come now is the time to worship. Here I am to worship. And the classic Dove award winning word of God speak by mercy me. And so again, this is sign of the time. This is like 2003. This is happening.
And so we would, we would just do those three songs on rotation for like two months and then every once in a while we like, hey, what if instead of ending with word of God speak, what if we started with word of God speak? You know, it was like, it was that kind of stuff. And so, I mean, you don't know what you don't know. So anyway, but yeah, been able to pursue that. I felt Lord calling me into full time ministry again right when I was about twelve or 13 and so felt a strong calling on my life from the Lord to be in full time vocational worship ministry since I was a kid and been able to have plenty of opportunity since then. And then really, really. We were off to the races once, once I got together with Steph and people were saying, oh, wow, so not, so Corey actually like has somebody with, with like real talent and skill by that, like somebody wants to listen to. And so we, we, after that we got together, we were able to have a lot of opportunity to be able to go and lead at different places and things like that.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Well, that does not surprise me, Stephanie, that you really deal on this whole thing.
[00:10:19] Speaker D: Anybody who's an actual musician knows how laughable this conversation is, because Corey plays every instrument known to man and can lead a band and sing and prompt a congregation and do all the things at the same time. And I can't even, like, hold a tambourine while I sing.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: I have to make. I have to do all those things to make up for my other shortcomings. See? So, whatever.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: It's a dream team. Total dream team.
[00:10:41] Speaker C: That's it.
[00:10:42] Speaker D: Hey, that is it. We do complement each other's skillsets well.
[00:10:45] Speaker C: That's right. We're complimentarian over here.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: I never doubted that. Never doubted that. You know, what I love about your stories is just God's faithfulness. How he leads, how he guides, how he's always going before us. And just the fact that people would, you know, at the age of 1213, 14, that God placed people to call out gifting and to give opportunity. And I think that's something that, as we lead in the local church, we've got to be committed to. I have a similar story, you know, where someone in my local church said, hey, let's give Andrea a chance. And it's just those smaller what. What appear to be small steps of obedience that lay that foundational work, that groundwork for what God has in the future. So I love. I love hearing your stories and the background of it and how the fruit that has come out of that. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about just personal stories and how you two met. And we do want to hear some good Corey and Stephanie stories. I've heard some through the grapevine over the years, and so I am all in on this part of the conversation. So tell us a little bit about you two, how you met and what life is like together.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: Do you want to do this part, or do you want me to?
[00:11:57] Speaker D: Well, I can start it.
[00:11:58] Speaker C: Okay, you go ahead.
[00:12:00] Speaker D: So, Cory and I met when we.
[00:12:01] Speaker C: Were freshmen in college at Washtown, fall of 2008.
[00:12:06] Speaker D: Yep. And my first impression of him was that he was very annoying, obnoxious. I told him I used to shut up. He is on my nerves. So I think those are the first words I ever spoke about him. But I won't say whether or not.
[00:12:25] Speaker C: I'm still saying I've been to say, yeah, not much has changed.
[00:12:30] Speaker D: No. But Corey, actually, his friendship was another very kind of important catalyst moment in my life and my faith journey. I had come out of a couple of really horrifying, verbally abusive, you know, dating relationships that were just not, not good. And so my version of expectation for how others treated me was very warped at that time in my life. And so Corey's friendship actually was something you're talking about pouring into others, and that's something that I hold so dear I usually can't talk about without crying. Maybe we're far enough. Remove it. I'm starting to get better at it.
[00:13:06] Speaker C: That's good. Yeah.
[00:13:08] Speaker D: But, yeah, Corey, Corey's friendship was very, it was a salve for my spirit that was so hurting at that time. And so we forged a really strong friendship before we ever started dating, which I think is really important.
And we've, we've stayed the closest to friends since then. But, yeah, we, it kind of happened really organically how we began to date. We both were very open and honest with one another from the start that we kind of thought we were having feelings, but we didn't want to ruin this friendship because we really enjoyed one another.
[00:13:36] Speaker C: And I'll tell you the story on all that. So again, just kind of reiterate that when we were, when we were hanging out and becoming friends, there was no pretense. Yeah. No pretend. There was no, like, romance there really. I mean, we were genuinely just enjoying one another's company. And so, you know, that, like, that always says, like, hey, you know, your spouse should be your best friend. Like, well, we were best friends before we were anything else. So that kind of worked out to our advantageous that way. But we were over. We were part of the opera at Washington. We both got a guilt tripped into it, and so we bonded over that.
[00:14:17] Speaker D: And then bonded over our lack of reverence for the art of opera among all of our peers.
Upheld it to the highest.
[00:14:26] Speaker C: Yeah. And so that we just. And fortunately, it was in English, so that's good. And it was a comedy, which is good. And so in this, in this opera, I was, I was playing a policeman and I had, like, painted on eyebrows that were like, yeah. And a groucho marks mustache, like, kind of like that. And so right around that time, and I think that's what, what did, that's what did it for Steph. It was the, it was the eyebrows and the stash.
And because that was right around the time that we were saying, like, I think I want to, I might be developing feelings for you and that sort of thing. And so it was, it took the, the Groucho Marx mustache to, to really set it off.
So after, after that, we we started dating a little bit more officially and things like that. So.
[00:15:15] Speaker D: And I try. I did try to break up with him once that following summer, and he told me, no, that's true.
[00:15:20] Speaker C: That's true.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: He was not.
[00:15:21] Speaker C: I just didn't agree to it. Yeah, I didn't agree to it. And so, yeah, you know, it's that.
[00:15:26] Speaker D: Seinfeld episode where George has to break up with his girlfriend. That's really what happened. We were dating long distance because it was the summer. And I told him I just didn't think that we needed to date anymore. He was like, no, that's stupid. And I didn't know what to say because I was, I was not anticipating that response.
[00:15:42] Speaker C: I was playing. I was playing 4D chess. You were playing checkers.
[00:15:46] Speaker D: So anyway, he. He said, no, we're not. We're not doing that. And I said, oh, okay.
[00:15:52] Speaker C: Well, she said, she said, I said, we're not breaking up. She said, well, yes, we are. And she was like. I said, no, we're not. She's like, look, you don't get to do that. And I said, I said, all right, well, I love you. I'll talk to you tomorrow. And she was like, well, we should at least, like, not talk for a couple days. And so once she was. Started giving away, I was like, ah, yeah, we're here now. Okay, we're good.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: So has that negotiation style made its way through the marriage? Is that how it works?
[00:16:18] Speaker C: I don't know. We are better at fighting than we used to be.
[00:16:21] Speaker D: Yeah. I feel like that's the biggest improvement in our relationship over marriage, is learning how to fight better.
[00:16:27] Speaker C: Yes. Well, because we're both very strong willed people. And so early on in the marriage, when we would have arguments and disagreements, it was kind of like what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object kind of thing? And so it was. It would get pretty heated. But again, just, we've been learned how to forgive and be gracious to one another and that sort of thing. So. Which is what, that's the whole basis of marriage altogether, is forgiveness and so.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. And then bring a couple of kids into the picture, which adds to the, you know, all the needs, all the chaos. So how do you guys, and I know you're busy? Like, right now, as you're recording, as we're recording this podcast you have just set up for an event. You're about to, you know, you're leading a worship camp this weekend, and so you're busy. You're on the go. How do you balance it all? Family, ministry, life? Like, what are some of the things that work for you and then what are some of the maybe, like, traps that you have to watch out for?
[00:17:30] Speaker D: I think the main answer is, I'm not sure.
[00:17:32] Speaker C: I'm not sure we do it. I was gonna say not very well. You might want to ask somebody else that.
[00:17:36] Speaker D: Yeah, we have had to really navigate. Prioritizing, I think, is the biggest thing. And making sure there's intentionality around what we commit to and, you know, how we plan with our family and things and the time that we spend with each other and with our children and making sure that we're not just giving each other our leftovers. I think, you know, when you're really involved in ministry, that can be the default. You know, that can happen really easily.
[00:18:05] Speaker C: And so, well, ministries, ministry is important, you know, and I mean, the things that we, you know, we lead for and serve at, I mean, those are really important things. So it's easy to prioritize those things subconsciously. You would never say, oh, that's more important than my family. You would never do that consciously, but ever. I mean, we all struggle with that. And as far as ministry is concerned, because it is important. I mean, a lot, I mean, eternity is in the balance for a lot of people, and so, but you can, you can put that up on a pedestal and neglect your family and things like that. I mean, the reality of it is, is that, I mean, again, we're very fortunate to be able to have the opportunity that we've had. But even if it wasn't us, man, somebody else could be leading at, at the women's conference, you know? But as far as mom and dad, to our kids, I mean, we're, we're not replaceable as far as mom and dad is concerned. And so again, like steph said, man, we just pray all the time. Even just driving down the road whenever they're fighting in the back or just like, oh, Lord, help me, just help me, you know, but with the thing that, that I pray and Steph raise for the most, just like, oh, Lord, help us. Just like, not to give our family our leftovers, you know, and take what? Enter, like, make it so that, to where I'm pulling into the driveway at the end of my work day that, like, you give me my second wind, you know, just like, give me a little bit more, because, like, the kids are going to bed in a couple hours, so I only got a couple hours to, to really spend time with them. And so, so that, and then, yeah, just praying for to be intentional, but also, like, just to pray to be present in the moment again, because when you're working and there's so many things going on outside of the home, your mind can go there really easily. I know that mine is that way, and so. But here lately, I've been trying to be a lot more intentional. Just like, when the kids are there, I'm with the kids, and I'm paying attention to the kids, and I'm loving on the kids and I'm playing with the kids, you know, and so especially in these, like, very formative years for them.
[00:20:02] Speaker D: And so, yeah, and I think another thing that we've talked a lot about and been intentional around is involving our kids in what we are doing to the degree we're able. So, you know, when Coleman was little, I mean, he's still little, but when he was really little, you know, Corey has to be at the church at 645 on Sundays, and I'm supposed to be in place, ready to sing with my pack and my mic and everything by 715. And so, you know, getting myself and my two children there and ready with breakfast to eat and clothed in such a way that it's appropriate for them to be at church for the next 5 hours every week is taxing, you know, and then we've got rehearsals on Thursday nights for the same thing. And, you know, most people, when they serve in that regard, it's just one of the family doing it. But Corey and I both are there. And so there were, there was a time when it was just, I mean, it was a battle every single rehearsal, every single Sunday morning. And we talked about, you know, should I take some time to kind of back away and not serve for a while? And ultimately, what we decided was, you know, we're called to use the giftings that God has given us to glorify him. And, you know, apart from something really big getting in the way, like, I want to show my children that serving in our local church, even when we're tired, even when it's hard, even when it would be easier to just show up, roll up to the 11:00 service and blame it on my kids, like it is important, and it's the priority to me. And I want them to see me living that out, you know, and bringing them in and letting them see us serving in our churches, really. So I think that helps in ministry, too. So then when we are going, like, this week, we have this college retreat this weekend, and then we're turning right around. We're home for one night, and then we're turning right around to go lead for a conference for the North American.
[00:21:51] Speaker C: Mission board, which is 1000% my fault.
Schedule is happening that way, but it's.
[00:21:57] Speaker D: Easier to talk to our kids about it. Like, they understand what, you know, what it is that we're doing because they see us doing it week in and week out. And so that helps.
[00:22:06] Speaker C: And, man, one thing that, that has been revealed to me since having kids, like, you never realize how much free time you had until you have kids. And you're like, oh, my gosh, what did I do with all this free time? And so, and how did I ever say I didn't have time? How I didn't have time for stuff, you know, before kids? Yeah, it's really funny. But I mean, the more, the more that the kids are in the mix, the more I'm starting to realize. And we've, we've said this in our house, like, the last couple years, like, you prioritize what's important to you, you know? And so it's, you know, people can.
[00:22:38] Speaker D: That's why me and Cory are chubby right now.
[00:22:39] Speaker C: That's right. That's right.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: I wonder what my excuse is at the, as the empty nester over here.
[00:22:47] Speaker C: Yeah. So, but it's just like, you, you prioritize what's important to you, you know? And, I mean, you can look at that screen time on your phone and like, that be, that's a huge gut check for me because it's like I say I don't have time for stuff, and then I look at the screen time, you know, per day during the week, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, so much time has just wasted. Doom scrolling on Instagram or Facebook or whatever, you know, and it's like, and what, what am I, what am I achieving, achieving and doing that, you know? And so, and then, you know, what, what time could that have been doing something of worth, you know?
[00:23:21] Speaker B: So I want to, I definitely want to affirm you guys. And, like, from the outside looking in, I love that you guys do ministry together, that you do make it a family opportunity, a family ministry. And, you know, I've seen your kids in the green rooms across the state of Arkansas. You bring them when you can, you're present with them. And I love that. Just fast forward thinking about one day, them sitting on a podcast talking about their upbringing, that they're going to be able to say the same things that you said about your parents.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: You're going to make steph cry.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: That was my goal. I mean, question five, I better start turning it up, right?
[00:23:59] Speaker C: It doesn't. I mean, it doesn't take a whole lot for stiff, so it's fine.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: But I just commend you guys on that because, you know, you're in. You're in demand, people are calling you all the time, and you find a way to, you know, and God gives us the grace to do that to make it happen. So we're so glad.
[00:24:15] Speaker C: Caffeine is an important part of that.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: We're just so glad we're on your schedule. So we'll talk about that in a few minutes. But we do want to dig into worship, kind of the theology of worship. Why worship is important. We know both of you as worship leaders, so talk to us about the importance of. Of worship, both corporately, privately, just in our walks with God.
[00:24:39] Speaker C: You want me to take this one? Okay, I'll take this one.
I will try to make. Because I can. I could really geek out.
[00:24:45] Speaker D: Yeah, this one.
[00:24:46] Speaker C: So I got to try to, you know, make it succinct, I think.
So part of it is a cultural thing, a lot. Whenever we say, you know, if we were to, you know, you're leaving church on Sunday and you're like, oh, man, I really love the worship today. When we say that, what are we usually referring to?
[00:25:05] Speaker B: The singing.
[00:25:05] Speaker C: The music. The music and the singing. Right? That's right.
And now, again, that's not that. Not that singing is not worship, but it's such a narrow view of what worship is. So I think that a lot of us, we could do ourselves a favor if we took the idea, the cultural idea of what worship is. And I. And just completely stripped that away and said, what if? Worship. Well, I mean, just again, what does that word mean? Where does it come from? So if you go down to the etymology of the word worship, it comes from the word etymology. It's a. It's a college term. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Listen, listen. I might be from when. Okay, but I know a few things. All right, here we go.
[00:25:45] Speaker D: Isn't that the study of insects?
[00:25:47] Speaker C: Insect. I don't know. I don't know what that's called. I don't know. But the etymology of the word worship comes from the word worth ship. So worthship. And so essentially the. When you get down to the basics of that word worship, it is just essentially saying, I ascribe worth to fill in the blank. So everybody worships, even atheists worship. Right. It's just. What is the object of your worship. And that is the question. And so, and so when. When you kind of get down again, like, yes, of course, singing is a form of worship. Obviously. Praying is a form of worship.
Reading God's word in a corporate setting is a form of worship. Right.
But that. It's so much more broad and much more all encompassing than that. And I know that it's a very popular phrase, like, well, worship is a lifestyle. And, yes, that is. That is the truth. But one thing that helped me kind of get the grasp of it is that in everything, everything that you do is an act of worship. Right. So, like, when you're eating, like, I can worship the Lord when I eat. And I can just say, lord, thank you for garlic bread. Amen. You know what I mean? So, like. And praise. Praise God for pasta and pizza and all that. You know what I'm saying? So it's like.
[00:27:07] Speaker D: And see, previous comment about being chubby.
[00:27:10] Speaker C: That's right. I mean, I'm not thanking him for lettuce. You know what I'm saying? No, I'm just kidding. Thank you for lettuce. It's nutritious. It's good.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: All the cards. Just the cards.
[00:27:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Doused and ranch dressing. It's really good. Yeah. So, but the point. The point is, is that whenever we can kind of. Kind of blow out the scope a little bit and say, what am I worshiping? It's like, well, yeah, you worship the Lord on Sundays, but I mean, like, when you're going to work, who are you worshiping? You know, like. And I mean, that could be anything. I mean, you can worship your family, you know, and nothing. And that's. I think that's the thing that most believers really struggle with. It's not that they're worshiping things that are bad. It's that they're worshiping things that are good, but they're not in their proper place, and so they're worshipping things that are not God. That's right. That's right. And so, I mean, your family, golly, it's. And again, talk about ascribing worth to something. If. If your family was the absolute most important thing to you, if your family was of the highest worth and the highest value, then let's go ahead and just put it in a hypothetical and say, if I had nothing else except for my family, would that be enough? And the answer is yes, because that is what my highest worth is in. I wouldn't need anything else. But when you put Jesus in his place in the proper place. And you say, if I didn't have anything else, if I lost all my money, if I lost my job, if I lost my family, God forbidden.
But if I lost all that and all I had was Jesus, would that be enough? And if the answer is yes, then your highest worth, your worship, is toward Jesus in that place. And so it's a challenging thing. But I mean, and I think it's Romans, Paul is writing, and he says, therefore, submit your bodies to the Lord, a living sacrifice. And then it's a little caveat. It says, for this is your true and proper worship. So it's not even that the Lord is looking for worship, however we want to give it. The Lord is asking for us to worship him in the way that he commands it. And so, which is completely, totally. I mean, we can't serve two masters. Like the Lord is saying, hey, either you're giving your. Either you're giving a all of yourself to me, or it doesn't. I mean, because only when it's a living sacrifice, your whole body as a living sacrifice, is it true and proper worship. Anything else is untrue and improper. Now, as far as the singing goes, that's important because the Lord said it was.
But also, I think it's really, what's really great is that in Zechariah, it says, or one of the z's. Zechariah, Zephaniah, I forget which one, but it says, the Lord rejoices over you with singing. And so the Lord, this is. I mean, apply it across the board to anything that the Lord commands of us. The Lord has never commanded us to do anything that he hasn't already done himself and hasn't already set the example. So the Lord is commanding us to sing out to him because the Lord is singing over us. And so as far as, like a corporate. And the importance of singing, I mean, there's a lot more there, but I'm trying again. Yeah, that's actually the succinct version. Isn't that crazy?
[00:30:28] Speaker B: That's so good. And what I love about that is it helps us to understand that the Lord just wants all of our hearts. He wants all of our minds. He wants that surrender. He wants that living sacrifice, and we should want it too, because that is truly the place of freedom when we can come to the place of Lord, I trust you, Lord. I love you, Lord. You're worthy of it all. And then the freedom that comes out of that, the peace and the joy, which is what we're talking about at conference, more of Jesus, less of me. It's just this beautiful, abiding relationship that is for our good and is for his glory. And so it's, it's just, it's a beautiful thing. God really, really, really knows what he's doing.
[00:31:10] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely does.
[00:31:12] Speaker C: And it's. And again, man, having kids, you really understand the relationship of God the father with us better after you have kids, because, I mean, you're trying to explain to your kids, you know, you're telling them, hey, do this, don't do this, don't do this. Or, hey, go do this. And their favorite question is, why? Why? Why? And, and the more that they ask why, the more it is revealing to, or whenever I, whenever we're getting on to them, it's like, I asked you not to do one thing, and that is what you did. And, of course. And, like, sounds familiar, doesn't it? Yeah. And so, and so, man, just, you can really see God's patience and God's mercy at work in that. Like, gosh, he is so patient with us all the time.
But also, I mean, again, very revealing that the Lord does know what's best for us, and we don't know what's best. Again, kind of like a parent when they're talking to their child. Like, our children would eat ice cream for supper every night if they could, you know, but we, as their parents, we know that that is not what's best for them. And so in the same way, the Lord has, again, man, what a blessing the scriptures are, has made it very clear to us, hey, this is what's best for you. And so when we try to insert our own understanding or our own wisdom, it's like, yeah, I don't think that's what that means. Or, um, you know, I don't think that that's actually what's best for me. And so really what you're doing at that point is that you're saying, yeah, I know what's best for me better than God does. And again, we sound like small children when we, when we operate under that understanding.
[00:32:47] Speaker D: Yeah, and it's laughable in the same way, you know, my two year old telling me that's not the way, that's not how we go there, like, trying to tell me how to drive, it's.
[00:32:55] Speaker C: The same, it's like, you don't know.
[00:32:56] Speaker D: Same idea. When we try to take control of our own lives and, you know, play.
[00:33:00] Speaker C: And so that, and that's us over our children. How much more is that between the Lord and us? Like, how much greater is God's understanding to us than our own, you know, and so it's a challenging thing.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: That's so good. It's just a good reminder and it's a good reminder for us as we approach conference. One thing, and let's kind of drill in on the worship, the worship through singing piece.
You know, one thing I love about you guys is you pick songs that are theologically sound like you really think about the words and what we're singing and why we're singing it and what it means.
So I want you to talk a little bit about how you select songs for the worship set and then also the importance of really looking at the words we're singing.
[00:33:46] Speaker C: Hmm.
[00:33:47] Speaker D: This is another one. You gotta write it in.
[00:33:50] Speaker C: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah.
In a situation where there's so many people coming from so many different churches, we typically try to cast as wide of a net as we can as far as familiarity goes, to encourage participation, to encourage congregational singing. That's right. Because a lot of people, they're approach, and I mean, it has its place. That's just not the way that we like to go. But a lot of people, their approach is, hey, my voice sounds really good on this song and I'm able to minister to people better in this way. And like I said, man, that has its place. But our approach is typically, what's one that they're really going to sing out on? What's one that they're like, man, like these, you know, 8900 voices joining as one to lift up high the name of Jesus in that place. And so that's why we pick songs that, again, across the board, you know, you could do, we could go through them. A name on like king of kings or 10,000 reasons in Christ alone, holy forever is a big one right now, you know, gratitude, things like that. And so you. And then, you know, if we want to introduce a new one, typically we will introduce a new one specifically because it goes with what the speaker is going to be preaching on. Our job as music leaders is to really tee up the word of God as best as we can. And so if we can kind of prime that pump and get people's hearts ready to dig into the word, hey, that is a win for us. So it's not, we're not picking songs in a vacuum typically. We want to try our best to again align with what is being taught that day. And so, and I mean, the, the playlist I'm probably putting, jumping ahead, reading ahead a little bit, spoiler alert. So. But that's why the playlist is constructed way that it is. I mean, some of those songs we will be singing, and some of them are, like, tailor made for this theme of more.
But in the even and going back to it, I mean, like, one of the familiar songs, and you were talking about being theologically accurate and that sort of thing. Again, that's of the highest importance. If what you're singing is untrue, what are we doing? What are we doing? And so, one that we. That we have actually kind of took a liberty with was, what a beautiful name. And so the we. I think we've done this with y'all before, and we sing it this way every time. The second verse, the original lyric, is, you didn't want heaven without us. So, Jesus, you brought heaven down. And now, there's nothing necessarily theologically wrong with that. I mean, the Lord does desire to spend eternity with us, and that's. I mean, I believe that. But to say the phrase you didn't want heaven without us almost implies that we are the trust, that we are the prize, that we are the treasure in that.
[00:36:42] Speaker D: And so we could add value to heaven.
[00:36:45] Speaker C: Yeah. That heaven is. Heaven is incomplete without us there. And again, like, we just want to stay away from that. Like, the less me focused that worship is, the better, because, again, ascribing worth to something we are not worthy. We are totally and completely unworthy, and that's why we need him. And so that's why we changed the lyric. And instead of saying, you didn't want heaven without us, we changed it to we couldn't have heaven without you. So, Jesus, you brought heaven down, and so. And I felt like that's, again, much stronger. It hits home a little bit harder, and it just, like, man, like, lifting up an even higher praise. It's just like, man, I could not. I couldn't reach that without you. You know, I couldn't get there without you. So. And again. And unlike all the other religions in the world, it is man striving toward God. It is man trying to reach God. It's man trying to strive to be good enough to reach heaven or a heavenly or divine status. And our goddess, the Lord Jesus, did the exact opposite. And instead of trying to get us to reach to him, he said, no, no, no, I'm gonna come down to you, and I'm gonna bring you up with me. And so, what a mighty God we serve.
[00:38:01] Speaker D: Yeah. And I think Corey does a good job of. He takes very seriously the pastor part of what he does. And I know a lot of people, the stereotype for the music guy is skinny jeans and not a lot of depth.
[00:38:14] Speaker C: That's true. Yeah.
[00:38:16] Speaker D: I can just be, I can be a cheerleader for my husband for a minute that he, that is very important to him to make sure that nothing that is done from the platform and as far as the music ministry is concerned would ever do anything except point people to Christ. And so if there's anything, and like, in the example he used, it was not blatantly heretical. It was not an outright lyrical statement. Right. Lyric that completely goes against, you know, something foundational of our, you know, core beliefs or anything like that. But it left room for confusion. It left room for being misinterpreted and potentially making someone think something that is not true. And so Corey's really careful about, about that, about protecting that portion of it and takes seriously the job and the responsibility to shepherd the people, you know, that he's leading in worship to be in alignment with what scripture says and to be pointing back to the reason we're there and to, you know, keeping the main thing, the main thing.
[00:39:18] Speaker C: So when the reality, the reality, the reality of the role is, I mean, and this is true for, for not just me. I mean, it's true for Steph. It's true for you, Andrea. True for anyone who's in a leadership role or even in, like, again, all of our pastors at our local churches. I mean, we are going to be held to a higher standard, you know, on our day of judgment. And so I, it that, again, when you, when you have eternity in mind, man, it makes everything a lot more weighty, you know, and it makes you a little bit more careful about what you're singing, because again, when we're singing, we are learning and teaching theology. I mean, from the, from the time that you're a child, the theology that, you know, was taught through song, most of it. And so, so, yeah, anything that we can do to make things a little bit stronger and help help edify our people and help build them up, the better off we are.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: So good. Well, I have good news for you, Arkansas Baptist women. We have a Spotify list that Corey and Stephanie have put together to help you get ready for conference. These are songs that we're going to sing at conference, but it's also songs that will just help prepare your heart. And so if you check out the show notes, you'll find that link there. You can also visit our website, absc.org abwconference. You can find the link to this Spotify list there. Tickets are selling fast. We are down to 100 tickets before we sell out. So there will be 1000 women worshiping the Lord together and Corey, 1001 will be there. We'll be worshiping the Lord. So be sure and register today before the tickets sell out. I just want to finish with one last question for Corey and Stephanie. I'm throwing this at you, but when you think about, you've been with us at conference for, I don't know, six, seven, eight years. I mean, a lot, a lot of it.
What, what stands out to you as kind of one of the highlights or the most meaningful moments for you at conference?
[00:41:14] Speaker D: I think for me, the, the impact of coming together as women, as believers cannot be understated. It's not an opportunity that we get very often.
And obviously, I'm a woman, so I can't speak for how, you know, whether it would be the same as a man. But I just, there's something special about, there are so many shared experiences in the room and there is a precious bonding and binding together as women who have walked through all these journeys, you know, and everyone, of course, is different, but our experiences as women and believers and, you know, church members has so much overlap. And so to be in one room together with people who are like minded, who have the same goals as you, who have probably walked a lot of similar roads to you to be seen and loved and just have time to just worship our father, you know, the role of a woman in a home is very multifaceted. And so to have a whole day where you're not having to remember to pack this or that or, you know, keep this schedule or arrive on time or, you know, all the things that, you know, we, we handle in a home to be able to just go and be filled, I mean, there's just, it's so special. Like to have a group that large of just women who love the Lord or who brought a friend they know doesn't know the Lord, like, that's a special thought, too. You know, what an encouragement to a non believer to see. You know, I think the church and even the Southern Baptists denomination can sometimes get a bad rap for being, you know, more traditional or, you know, even misogynistic depending on what, you know, outlet you listen to. And so I think the fact that the convent, the state convention sees value and worth in this and is pouring into these women and empowering them and, you know, wanting to fill their cups, you know, these are the people, a lot of them that are serving in their church week to week and pouring out and just serving from a place of emptiness. And so to get to come together and be a part of a day like that where for all those women who are serving so faithfully in their church homes to get loved on and poured into and to be, to have our state convention say, like, you are worthy, you are a value. We see the worth and putting this on for you to have that time is just something you can't really, you know, put a value on. I feel like that's well said.
[00:43:39] Speaker C: I don't have any well said.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: Corey. You cannot talk that. So we will let you off the hook. But we look forward to seeing you at conference. Want to thank you so much for your faithfulness to lead and serve and women. Just as a reminder, be sure and register today. Visit absc.org abwconference. Thanks Corey and Stephanie. We'll see you soon.
[00:43:57] Speaker C: Yeah, looking forward to it.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: Thanks for listening. I hope today's episode helps you embrace the full, free, abundant life that Jesus provides. Don't forget to follow, like and subscribe to the Arkansas Baptist Women podcast. If you would like more encouragement to help you grow in your faith, visit our
[email protected], abw. Come back next time as we continue to talk about how we can worship, grow, connect, serve and share together. I can't wait to talk to you soon.
